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Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène

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MessageKirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par marie Mar 6 Oct 2009 - 22:21

merci à iswt qui nous retransmet cette info de Kirby, dont voici le texte
et la source
Citation :
Posté par iswt ·
nouveau kirby : ATTENTION
Auj. à 21:51
si c vrai on entre en pleine zone dangereuse

To all subscribers;

I want to let you all know that there is a VERY important corollary to my earlier fast blast. I’ve been told that players requesting physical metal in settlement have been offered significant “off-market” fiat premiums if they would settle in fiat rather than physical. The implications here folks are HUGE: it means that gold is ACTUALLY IN BACKWARDATION NOW.

I say this because, Antal Fekete has just come out with a piece saying the gold price break-out is not confirmed because there is no backwardation in the gold price.

His assumptions are false – gold “IS” in backwardation NOW and it’s being hidden from us.

Best,
Rob Kirby


Posté par iswt ·
en gros ils n arrivent plus a honorer
Auj. à 22:11
les contrats physiques donc proposent un "settlement" en cash au lieu d or physique au dessus du "spot" theorique et des futures

cela revient a dire que le vrai spot est au dessus du futures (papier) donc en backwardation


**********************

ce qui ne m'étonne pas et confirme à la fois les observations de Douglas sur le reporting totalement bidonné des mouvements de physique ds les warehouses du comex

ainsi que la réglementation du comex qui permet de livrer de l'etf ( donc du papier ) en lieu et place du physique



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Dernière édition par marie le Dim 17 Avr 2011 - 2:48, édité 6 fois

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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par marie Mer 7 Oct 2009 - 0:32

la suite de Kirby sur midas de ce soir

www.lemetropolecafe.com


Rob Kirby…
a bird on a wire told me so

Bill;
I’ve been told by someone who "knows" that major players demanded a lot of physical gold on Sept. 30 and "clowns" tried every trick to keep them in paper and even offered premium in cash over the Sept.30.Spot price.
Allegedly, the BOYZ were told that they have 5 days of grace to come up with the real goods.
The results are obvious.
There is less then 600 metric tons of Au available [globally] at this point in time [for possible sale] and 1/2 is locked / frozen and cannot be moved.
The delivery commitments are a multiple of this.
The battle is on and the first guys are being taken out of the room with bullet holes in their forehead.
There might be one last great concerted effort by the BOYS to knock back the price. But even they know by now that they have lost control and that their construct of lies, fraud and deceit is coming down.
It will get - no, it is - very, very, very ugly.
On top of it we shall see the collapse of some Gulf states, as well as some major US and European banks hitting the skids.
Rob...
It would seem – if my sources are correct – that we have finally reached "the point" that Frank Veneroso speculated about so many years ago – when price managers would "RUN OUT" of physical gold to continue their paper games. My ‘bird on a wire’ source continues;

The jerks are being hung by their thumbs and there is nothing they can do.
The very little Au that is available globally and it has been blocked from being sold to the BOYZ.
JPM/Chase is scrambling at every refinery to get their hands onto product. They even go to mines, no, - as we call it 'going to the pit to get it to the cage', but they don't have the required access and are being strung out big time.
They did not see this coming.
They will fight but they are being pushed onto their own swords. Arrogance comes before the fall.
I say, couldn’t happen to a nicer group of criminal thugs.
Best,
Rob Kirby



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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par marie Jeu 8 Oct 2009 - 21:15

Kirby, aujourd'hui sur www.lemetropolecafe.com

Bill;
Regarding my bird on a wire source re: difficulties settling physical gold bullion demanded Sept. 30;
I have been told that no less than two Central Banks have become involuntarily involved in this settlement process – one of them being British [BoE] involving sub-standard [by LBMA good delivery standards] bars that require further refining to meet delivery / contract standards.
This whole process "continues to REEK" of malfeasance at the VERY highest levels and my ‘bird on a wire’ source tells me this all portends for a gold price dramatically higher in short order.
R



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MessageLien original Rob Kirby / Hardball now playing at theaters near you
par phv Dim 11 Oct 2009 - 1:42

la suite :

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1255111200.php

On peut déduire de ces infos que certains gros du marché ("well-heeled market participants) ont décidé de faire tomber les gants...

D'où mon sujet, et comme on dit aux US lors de la sortie d'un nouveau film :

"Hardball" now playing at (Banking) theaters near you...

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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par marie Mer 14 Oct 2009 - 1:14

hoho ... ya des réunions en ce moment au LBMA.. ( le marché des futures londonien, pour gold et silver ) avec les "markets members" ..

ça sent le brulé???

www.lemetropolecafe.com, origine www.thebulliondesk.com avec un commentaire de Rob Kirby


Bill;
In case you missed this:
The Deception Continues to Grow

An interesting development / admission occurred, virtually unnoticed, last week [Friday, Oct.9] – reported by Bullion Desk:




LME CEO confirms meeting with high-profile London bullion market members, sees grounds for further talks

By Melanie Burton - Correspondent,
press@fastmarkets.com (+44 (0)20 7929 6339)


London, 09 October 2009 - The LME has met with several high-profile members of the London bullion market recently and believes there are grounds for further talks, LME CEO Martin Abbott confirmed on Friday.

"I can confirm a recent meeting," Abbott told FastMarkets by phone. "As a result of the meeting, we believe that there are grounds for us to continue discussions with bullion market participants. There is no timeline."

The meeting is believed to have taken place on September 24, with at least five high-profile members of the bullion market meeting members of the exchange.

Representatives of large bullion bank, including HSBC, Goldman Sachs International, JP Morgan, ScotiaMocatta, and Deutsche Bank were in attendance, FastMarkets understands. Of these, all but ScotiaMocatta are LME members.

Although the subject of the meetings has not been disclosed, the London bullion market has, since the start of the year, been considering a new model for their over-the-counter gold forward contracts to cut counterparty risks, credit costs, and prepare for a new era of stricter regulation.

Competitor CME Group introduced on September 20 its OTC forward clearing offering to the London market, while clearing house LCH.Clearnet has vowed to have a service ready by April next year.

Discussions may also have touched on other services the LME could offer such as help with developing data collection and monetisation.

The LME said in July it was holding exploratory talks with members of the freight industry. It called for the development of a London Baltic Freight Exchange, which has so far met with a mixed reception.

(Editing by Mark Shaw)


First, I draw everyone’s attention to the date this meeting allegedly took place – Sept.24, 2009. Now, take a look at what happened to the price of gold the very next day – and ask yourself who might have known this was going to happen?????:


Rob Kirby



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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par nofear Jeu 15 Oct 2009 - 22:07

un rajout par Rob kirby


By: Rob Kirby

Earlier this week, I wrote about possible “incongruities” in the gold bar registry of GLD. Specifically, here is what has happened to the GLD bar list which is published each Friday at approximately 4:30 pm EST. An alert reader I communicate with [who shall remain anonymous] has been documenting the length of the published GLD bar list:

- on Friday, Sept. 25 – the list was 1,381 pages long
- on Friday, Oct. 2 – the list was 208 pages long
- on Friday, Oct. 9 – the list was 195 pages long
- then, on Wednesday, Oct. 14 – after questions were being raised about the strange machinations with the bar list in chat rooms on the internet – the list was back up to 855 pages long

Something
TRULY stinks here. No explanation has been offered for the DRAMATIC
swings in this list. Where gold is concerned nothing happens by
accident.

How Precious is Settled in London:

Loco
London clearing is the daily paper unallocated transfers between London
clearers; the transfers of gold and silver only across accounts held
between clearers for their own accounts and third parties; and, as
mentioned earlier, the clearing out of Zürich for the platinum group
metals. It avoids security risk and the cost of physical movement of
bullion; has standard market practices…

[However]
Both allocated and unallocated account agreements are available. There
are allocations for credit purposes, bilateral credit agreements
between clearers, and London good delivery….

Some short definitions: an
unallocated account is an account where specific bars are not set
aside, and the customer has a general entitlement to the metal. This is
the most convenient, cheapest, and most commonly used method of holding
metal. The allocated account, on the other hand, is an account opened
when a customer requires metal to be physically segregated, and this
needs a detailed list of weights and assays….

To Summarize:

- GLD gold bullion inventory is principally held in London
- I’ve already written about some large [allocated] physical transactions that were settled last week in London under VERY strange circumstances indicative of a shortage of physical gold bullion for good delivery.
- At the same time, significant irregularities appeared in the GLD bullion bar list

Conclusion:

- is the correlated timing of these unusual events a coincidence???? Could
GLD inventory have been utilized to effect these physical settlements,
which in turn, would have required the “sanitization” or doctoring of
the GLD bar list to avoid MANY obvious, easily detectable, duplications
of bar numbers?

I discussed these irregularities with a very informed source [the same one who informed me of specific [allocated] trades settled last week] and the reply I received was as follows:

“What can I tell you that you don't already know?

They are all scrambling big time since a number of large interests have demanded audits. Independent auditors are NOW descending onto the various vaults to verify, validate and certify.

They can move this as many times in circles as they like to try to fool people.

In an Asian depository they’ve found “Good Delivery” bricks that had been gutted and filled with tungsten.

Soon, there will be xxxx hitting the fan all over place.”

These circumstances suggest that [size=18]a VERY REAL physical short squeeze is in progress RIGHT NOW and a gang of fraudsters from “fiat-crack-houses” [Central Banks] are attempting to finesse their losing over-sold hand in an elaborate Three-card Monty. With reports of independent physical audits now being conducted and mysterious happenings with GLD’s bar list – GLD has NEVER looked more suspect.
Hope you’ve all got some physical gold already.[
/size]

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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par marie Dim 18 Oct 2009 - 17:18

alors là, vous allez en tomber sur le cul !!

du tungsténe dans un bullion vault asiatique !
cad de fausses barres d'or, valides pour la livraison.. des barres en tungstène, recouverte d'une couche d'or, tungstène qui, arnaque subtile, a le même densité que l'or !

cette fraude ayant été détectée, suite à une série d'audits des bullion vaults, demandées par de "gros intérêts"



Citation :

Rob Kirby



I discussed these irregularities with a very informed source [the same one who informed me of specific [allocated] trades settled last week] and the reply I received was as follows:



“What can I tell you that you don't already know?



They are all scrambling big time since a number of large interests have demanded audits. Independent auditors are NOW descending onto the various vaults to verify, validate and certify.



They can move this as many times in circles as they like to try to fool people.



In an Asian depository they’ve found “Good Delivery” bricks that had been gutted and filled with tungsten.



Soon, there will be xxxx hitting the fan all over place.”

d'où viennent ces fausses barre d'or?? le suspect idéal serait la banque d'angleterre

************************

explications d'un ex bullion dealer, via www.lemetropolecafe.com


Speaking of fraud and the grim reaper…
doctored gold bars

Dear Bill,
That was quite the bombshell from Rob Kirby yesterday about the "good delivery" bars filled with tungsten. When I was a bullion dealer, I was always on the lookout for counterfeits and tampered bars. In the last PM bull market, some 100 oz silver bars were drilled and filled with lead. However, this can be easily detected by weighing with a decent scale, as lead has a different density than silver.

However, the tungsten filled gold bars indicate a very sophisticated fraud. Not only is tungsten cheap, it has the SAME density as gold - 19.3 g/cc. Assuming the ends are sealed smoothly, you can touch and weigh the bars all you want, you can't be sure they are pure gold without cutting into them. Panic is likely to break out among professionals as the news of this fraud spreads. If you can't trust the "good delivery" bars what can you trust? These are supposed to have a guaranteed purity and then never leave the custody of trusted individuals so that investors don't have to assay them. Who knows what will be found as more large investors demand full audits?

It's amazing how lately so many gold stories back up GATA research. GATA has pointed out repeatedly that swapping, leasing, and paper games were necessary to keep the gold price down as the central banks didn't have the metal they claimed. Here is yet another instance of investors believing they hold X amount of bullion but in reality owning a mere fraction. It's a Ponzi scheme just like the Madoff scandal, and will end just as badly.
All the best,
Jennifer Barry
www.globalassetstrategist.com

*************

qui aurait demandé ces audits? ça pourrait bien être la chine, qui rappatrie dare dare son or à Honk Hong

www.lemetropolecafe.com

Dave from Denver...
Some thoughts on Rob Kirby's GLD article Someone on my blog asked me if I had any more info/insight on the Rob Kirby/GLD scandal. This was my response:
I don't know any specifics on that situation other than what Rob Kirby has reported. I have exchanged emails with Rob about the delivery situation he reported last week. I know enough about how deliveries work and have experienced delays in silver from the Comex via HSBC to know that what he reported about the delivery situation with gold on the LME is most likely 100% authentic.
We also know that China has publicly announced that they are recalling ALL gold being safekept in London and other cities and moving it to Hong Kong. If there is a game of musical chairs being played with 400 oz. bullion bars, that may be related to the China situation. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a massive trend of legal owners of physical bullion are seeking to take actual physical possession of the gold they own, or at least move it to a depository they can monitor. Given the size of the "paper short" position vs. physical supply, I suspect we are on the cusp of seeing the massive shortage of physical vs. paper outstanding exposed, masssive defaults on paper obligations, and a MASSIVE move higher in the price of gold.
I also suspect that China's announcement that they may default on oil derivatives a few weeks ago may be related to the risk they feel they are exposed to of the UK and US banks defaulting on gold/silver contracts.



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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par marie Lun 19 Oct 2009 - 23:29

considérations techniques sur le tungsténe


www.lemetropolecafe.com


Bill,
To add another note to the "doctored gold bars" caper, and after reading Adrian’s post re the resistivity test for gold vs. tungsten, I checked into the specific gravity of GOLD vs. TUNGSTEN. Interestingly they are almost exactly the same. GOLD has a specific gravity (density) of 19.32 and TUNSTEN has a specific gravity of 19.25—certainly this tiny differenced could not be noticed by human movement of bars and probably not with many very large multi ton scales. I had not realized that tungsten and gold had almost identical densities.
http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/spec_gra.html
Specific
Gravity Table For Ceramics, Metals & Minerals
Gold coin (U.S.)
17.18 - 17.2
Gold, pure
19.32
Tungsten
19.25
Silver, pure
10.4 - 10.6
Pure tungsten is a steel-gray to tin-white metal generally obtained as a powder. Tungsten has the highest melting point and lowest vapor pressure of all metals, and at temperatures over 1650°C has the highest tensile strength. The metal oxidizes in air and must be protected at elevated temperatures. It has excellent corrosion resistance and is attacked only slightly by most mineral acids.
Tungsten (symbol W) is hard to melt. The melting point of Tungsten is 3422°C (degrees Celsius). The melting point of gold is about 1064 °C.
Cheers,
Chris K.

**************


Gold filled with Tungsten?


Though the densities of gold and Tungsten are close they are not the same. Gold has a density of 19.32 g/cc and Tungsten has a density of 19.25 g/cc. This is a difference in density of 0.36 %, which is quite small. The densities of two different elements cannot be identical as that is impossible. As I have seen it described on the internet, a Tungsten ingot with a much higher melting point than gold (3410 deg C versus 1064 deg C) is electroplated/clad with gold that is approximately 1/16th inch thick costing about $50,000 to make versus the cost of pure gold being about $400,000 for a 400 oz deliverable bar. The difference is that a tungsten-filled bar would weigh about 1.4 oz less than a 400 oz pure gold bar. So, it would be very hard to detect by casual observation such as weighing, sound, etc. I would think that one relatively easy test would be to drill a small diameter hole in the suspect bar and visually analyze to see if any tungsten (silver in color) was present from a hole drilled approximately 1/8th inch deep into the bar. Keep the drill shavings! J I am not sure about Adrian’s electrical resistance check for determining authentic gold. I took one of my gold bars and hooked up my digital multi-meter to it and came up with a resistance of 0.000 ohms! Since a nano-ohm is 1x10-9 ohms (0.000000001 ohms) my digital multi-meter can’t read resistance that accurately! How many people have a super accurate shop meter around to measure resistance? While Adrian’s resistance test will work if you are testing resistance of the separate metals I am not sure how that would work with tungsten clad with gold. I would think that since current flow mostly on the surface of a metal for A/C current while flowing through the entire wire cross section for D/C current flow, that a reliable test would have to use D/C current to determine the presence of tungsten inside a gold bar. I am not sure if a reliable density test could be performed using water and an accurate weight scale as the density difference of only 0.36 % is quite small but accurate measuring devices could determine this. I would think that placing a small hot probe on one side of the suspect bar that would melt the gold down to a depth at which the tungsten would be contacted thus stopping the gold melting probe while still leaving all the gold on the bar would be another way to detect bogus tungsten/gold bars without removing the gold from the bar. How many of us have a 1,064 degree C hot probe around? Isn’t it curious that the US government has recently pushed to eliminate tungsten filament incandescent light bulbs replacing them with mercury laden fluorescent light bulbs? Perhaps they used the tungsten to fill their gold bars in Fort Knox? This could explain the continuing flow of gold into the market if the US government melted down all the gold in Fort Knox and sold it into the market place with tungsten core/gold plated bars. Hmmmm. Perhaps the US has been flooding the market place with gold plated tungsten while keeping most of the gold at home?
Gold has an electrical resistance of 22.14 nano ohms per meter (nÙ·m), while copper has an electrical resistance of 17.2 nÙ/m and silver has an electrical resistance of 15.87 nÙ/m.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_nano_ohms_transferred_per_metre_in_copper So silver is the metal with the lowest resistance to electrical current flow.
I am going to hope that my gold is all pure and not tungsten filled at this point. I don’t know how to ascertain with absolute certainty that my gold is pure. I’m sure that others out there reading this column regularly are wondering the same thing about their gold bars. I am all ears Adrian.
Duty Is Ours,
Dan Mason
Adrian…
Bill,
From the email you have had it looks like we will need to have a basic physics and electricity review to clear things up!
Resistivity is the electrical resistance of a block of material that measures one meter by one meter by one meter. If we take a 400 ozs gold bar it will be approximately 26 cms by 5 cms by 5 cms . This means the resistance is the resistivity x 10000/25 x 100/26. For gold this is 34 micro-ohms for tungsten it is 82 micro-ohms. No! You can not measure this with your multi-meter from Home Depot or Radio Shack because that is made for measuring the resistance of highly resistive things. You need a special meter to measure the resistance of conductive materials.
There are many devices to do this here is one of them
http://www.ipfonline.com/store/product
s/40083.html?catid=40083

It has a range of 0.1 micro ohms to 20 kilo ohms so the measurements of a fake and real gold bar are well within its measuring range.
This is not for amateur hobbyists; it is sophisticated equipment but for those who wrote saying it wasn’t scientifically possible to do are wrong…you just can’t do it with your cheap multimeter from Radio Shack!
Cheers
Adrian
On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:41:10 -0700 (PDT), bradhale wrote:
Chris
I don't have Adrian Douglas's contact details so thought I'd email you. Hope you don't mind.

Having read tonght,s Midas I was considering Adrian’s solution to the problem of determining if the LGD bar needed a full assay using a rapid method.

Adrian suggested a conductivity test. However I think this may not work as the electrical current would pass around the gold plate and not through the tungsten. I'll ask my friend who has a PHd in electrical engineering though tomorrow.

A quick test would be to determine the flexural rigidity of the bar.

The LGD bar could be placed in a rig supported at both sides and a known mass placed in the centre. A digital gauge could easily measure the tiny amount of flex in the bar.
QUOTE:

Bill,
As a technical point, for anyone wanting to determine if a bar is genuinewithout melting it is to measure the resistivity of the bar. Gold is threetimes more conductive to electricity than tungsten with a resistivity of
22.14 nano-ohm.m versus 52.8 nano-ohm.m for tungsten. So accurate electrical measurements can easily recognize a fake bar with a simple non-destructive test.
Cheers
Adrian


OBSERVATION (from an Electrical Engineer who understands the measurement of resistance at very close to zero ohms):

Using a resistance measurement is literally impossible (as opposed to easy) because the contact between the measuring equipment and the gold bar would never, ever, ever be good enough to determine anything. But lets look at other possibilities based on the physical properties of gold... short of melting it.

SOLUTION #1: The Chinese used to strike gold coins and listen to the ring to determine if the coin was made of solid gold or not, which left "chop marks" on the coins. A similar method can be applied to large gold bars (and would also work with coins), but leaving no marks of any kind:

The resonant frequency of a genuine solid gold bar and a tungsten core gold bar will be vastly different. The gold bar is placed on a piece of felt with a contact type microphone under it. A high power (like 100 watts) audio sweep generator connected to a suitable transducer is placed within a few thousandths of an inch above the bar. The sweep frequency generator sends sonic energy into the bar while the microphone reads the reaction of the bar from below. Genuine bars will all be within a narrow band of resonance - the microphone output will increase an order of magnitude at the resonant frequency of the gold bar. A tungsten filled bar will resonate at much high frequencies. The larger the bar, the lower the resonant frequency, and the shape of the bar will affect the resonant frequency as well, so a known good bar must be tested to determine the resonant frequency, and a list of resonant frequencies for each bar type, shape and weight could be published. But maybe there is a more simple test...

SOLUTION #2: Thermal conductivity of Gold is twice that of Tungsten. Testing goes like this: The bar being tested is heated to 70 degrees F, then set on end on a block of ice at 20 degrees F. The ice at the bar quickly melts a little to form a good thermal contact with the bar. A non-contact thermometer measures the change in temperature at the top of the bar with respect to time. A good bar will always show about the same drop in temperature in the same amount of time. A tungsten filled bar takes perhaps 30% longer to achieve the same temperature shift. This test requires no precision temperature controls because it is the shape of the temperature curve that tells if the bar is pure gold.

Solution #3: This test is the most expensive, but irrefutable and non-destructive. It involves the use of industrial X-ray equipment, like that used to X-ray welds of 16-inch steel pipes in power plants. It uses radioactive cobalt as a source of X-rays (actually Gamma rays). This test should always be done together with a genuine gold bar, so that both bars are X-rayed at the same time - this precludes having a gold plated piece of tungsten passing the test. Solution #2 should always be done anyway, as any significant amount of tungsten will be discovered.

You would still want an assay of the gold to determine fineness.

If it has a tugsten filling it will be very stiff and can be subjected to a complete assay. If the bar is 999.999 fine bullion it will flex a lot more and can be put to one side until the suspect bars have been checked. This is non-destructive and the bar would not be deformed by the flex if the bending force was low enough.

I don't know the dimensions of a LGD bar but I could provide detailed calcs if you think the idea has merit.

Some quick data:

Tungsten- Youngs Modulus 411 GPa
Gold -Young's Modulus 78 GPa
GPa is Newtons per meter squared, times ten to the power 9.

Regards
Brad Hale
BEng(Hons) CEng MIPlantE MSOE
Chris, Bill,
Looks viable to me. Good engineering solution!
Cheers
Adrian
If only café readers would come up with as many plans to eliminate the Cartel it would be superb!!!
Cheers
Adrian
Bill
BTW tungsten is about $100 pet mt compared to gold at 32 million
dollars per mt!
Cheers
Adrian




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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par marie Lun 19 Oct 2009 - 23:55

la derniére étude de Fekete à ce sujet, assez furax qu'on lui trafique "son outil" le gold basis ... ( en gros et pour faire simple, un outil qui permet de mesurer le degré de backwardation des futures gold comex )


http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1255885200.php

avec un commentaire très éclairé d'un lecteur du midas sur l'or de fort knox, les fameuses barres Rossvelt à 22 carats au lieu de 24 qui refont surface.. et l'or de la Bundesbanq

www.lemetropolecafe.com

Bill H on Antal Fekete’s piece at The Toulouse-Lautrec Table:
To all; the above link is to an article posted today by Antal Fekete. He speaks of COMEX and ETF hanky panky with physical (or lack of) Gold. He also mentions that 22 karat Gold has been seen "popping" up again as it had very early this year. This Gold can only come from the West Point depository which houses the "coin melt" Gold that was confiscated back in 1933. This is very interesting because back in 2003 or 04 James Turk found evidence of 1700 tons of "Gold swaps" with the Germans for this amount and it was believed that the "good delivery" German Gold was then leased or sold into the market place. Now that the "coin melt" Gold is turning up where it should not, the Germans want THEIR Gold delivered back to them. My first thought is GOOD LUCK! The swapped U.S. Gold in German possession has already gone to market and the German Gold in U.S. possession is surfacing when it shouldn't. The Germans, Swiss and Koreans want their U.S. custodial Gold returned while the Arabs are calling London to deliver theirs. Is this coincidence?
Dr. Fekete also talks of backwardation where spot Gold trades at a premium to future "promised Gold". This should NEVER happen with "money" unless trust becomes questioned. If we enter true backwardation, as Mr. Fekete states, physical Gold will be pulled from the market and will not be available for sale at ANY fiat price. I believe he is absolutely correct in his hypothesis and the "Mother of all short squeezes" will result in both Gold and Silver. Regards, Bill H.



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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par nofear Mar 20 Oct 2009 - 14:10

la suite:



Related ANECDOTAL input which surfaced yesterday… Dear Mr. Murphy!In yesterday's Midas you reported something about "doctored gold bars". I posted it on my gold website www.hartgeld.comShortly thereafter I received a message from a well established tungsten dealer in Germany: He
stated that recently strange enquires for large quantities of pure
tungsten came to him from Asia. The people making these enquiries are
not known in the industry. He thinks they buy for someone else. Maybe
it has something to do with these "doctored gold bars", or not. If
it is the case, it must be a large scale operation. They seem to look
in the whole world for tungsten. Maybe it is to exchange the contents
of gold stores (like GLD) and make them "audit proof". It is not easy
to find out, if a "gold bar" has a tungsten core or not - except by
melting it. Which financial auditor would do it? probably none, because
it is too much effort and they believe in the LGD-system. Bringing
such bars onto the market is another thing, because the buyer might
test them. The gold cartel would do this only in the most dire
emergency, because it the fraud becomes open, almost nobody would trust
the LGD-system anymore. It probably has already happened. If these bars
mentioned in Midas show a paper trail back to a cartel bank, bad for
this bank. Is their situation already this bad? Besides, making
tungsten "gold bars" requires a quite sophisticated operation, this
metal has a very high melting point, but is the only one with the same
density as gold. Also, forging the necessary paper trail is not easy
for the common criminal, but easy for a bank. Most gold
refineries in Europe trust nobody and no gold coming in. They melt,
test and re-refine everything. Imagine, a lot of tungsten cores showing
up in London Good Delivery bars. Maybe a large number of doctored bars
is already out, but nobody has tested them? As it looks, the gold cartel is on its last legs.Best Regards from Vienna, Austria
Walter Eichelburg Nothing gets by Adrian, or Rob K for that matter… Bill,
As
a technical point, for anyone wanting to determine if a bar is genuine
without melting it is to measure the resistivity of the bar. Gold is
three times more conductive to electricity than tungsten with a
resistivity of 22.14 nano-ohm.m versus 52.8 nano-ohm.m for tungsten. So
accurate electrical measurements can easily recognize a fake bar with a
simple non-destructive test.
Cheers
Adrian Bill,
This is interestinghttp://www.roskill.com/report.html?id=82QUOTE There
have been very few new applications for tungsten in recent years and
most end use markets are relatively mature. This means that average
growth rates tend to be generally in line with cyclical economic
activity. However, global demand rose from 45,100tW in 2002 to 60,500tW
in 2005, an average of 10%py. Demand for tungsten is forecast to grow
by an average 3%py to 2010, when it will reach 68,250t. END So
there were no new uses for tungsten yet there was a sudden spike in
demand where the annual growth rate tripled from 2002-2005. I calculate
the anomalous extra demand to equal 21,000 t. That is certainly a very
provocative number after my recent article!! This is by no means proof
of anything but a sudden massive increase in demand for a metal that
has no new applications and is in a mature market is difficult to
explain away. Perhaps there WAS a new use for tungsten that very few
people know about…like making fake LGD gold bars! Most LGD bars
will be kept in vaults in London and not be re-assayed if they don’t
leave the vault. An almost water tight fraud once they are accepted in
to the vault that even auditors could not detect. The plot thickens! Auditors will need to be armed with equipment to make electrical resistivity tests!
Cheers
Adrian Bill
BTW tungsten is about $100 pet mt compared to gold at 32 million
dollars per mt!
Cheers
Adrian Is
that all a scandal maker? NO, not yet anyway. But it is worthy of
sending this input to gold holders all over the world. “EH?” … as our
friends up north might say. No harm no foul there. For sure, it adds
potential fuel to the growing stink of in the gold market that
something is seriously wrong about gold inventories. SMOKE? It is more
like the worst smoke-filled Californian’s experience after a dry
season and the Santa Anna winds kick into high gear. It certainly ought
to make gold owners take notice about the status of gold in GLD, or
other suspect depositories, and it certainly ought to make them want to
read Adrian’s two latest…10/16 Adrian Douglas - HOW MUCH GOLD HAS BEEN SOLD THAT DOESN’T EXIST? http://www.lemetropolecafe.com/chien_du_cafe.cfm?pid=8151


OBSERVATION (from an Electrical Engineer who understands the measurement of resistance at very close to zero ohms):

Using
a resistance measurement is literally impossible (as opposed to easy)
because the contact between the measuring equipment and the gold bar
would never, ever, ever be good enough to determine anything. But lets
look at other possibilities based on the physical properties of gold...
short of melting it.

SOLUTION #1: The Chinese used to strike
gold coins and listen to the ring to determine if the coin was made of
solid gold or not, which left "chop marks" on the coins. A similar
method can be applied to large gold bars (and would also work with
coins), but leaving no marks of any kind:

The
resonant frequency of a genuine solid gold bar and a tungsten core gold
bar will be vastly different. The gold bar is placed on a piece of felt
with a contact type microphone under it. A high power (like 100 watts)
audio sweep generator connected to a suitable transducer is placed
within a few thousandths of an inch above the bar. The sweep frequency
generator sends sonic energy into the bar while the microphone reads
the reaction of the bar from below. Genuine bars will all be within a
narrow band of resonance - the microphone output will increase an order
of magnitude at the resonant frequency of the gold bar. A tungsten
filled bar will resonate at much high frequencies. The larger the bar,
the lower the resonant frequency, and the shape of the bar will affect
the resonant frequency as well, so a known good bar must be tested to
determine the resonant frequency, and a list of resonant frequencies
for each bar type, shape and weight could be published. But maybe there
is a more simple test...

SOLUTION #2: Thermal conductivity of
Gold is twice that of Tungsten. Testing goes like this: The bar being
tested is heated to 70 degrees F, then set on end on a block of ice at
20 degrees F. The ice at the bar quickly melts a little to form a good
thermal contact with the bar. A non-contact thermometer measures the
change in temperature at the top of the bar with respect to time. A
good bar will always show about the same drop in temperature in the
same amount of time. A tungsten filled bar takes perhaps 30% longer to
achieve the same temperature shift. This test requires no precision
temperature controls because it is the shape of the temperature curve
that tells if the bar is pure gold.

Solution #3: This test is
the most expensive, but irrefutable and non-destructive. It involves
the use of industrial X-ray equipment, like that used to X-ray welds of
16-inch steel pipes in power plants. It uses radioactive cobalt as a
source of X-rays (actually Gamma rays). This test should always be done
together with a genuine gold bar, so that both bars are X-rayed at the
same time - this precludes having a gold plated piece of tungsten
passing the test. Solution #2 should always be done anyway, as any
significant amount of tungsten will be discovered.

You would still want an assay of the gold to determine fineness.

If
it has a tugsten filling it will be very stiff and can be subjected to
a complete assay. If the bar is 999.999 fine bullion it will flex a lot
more and can be put to one side until the suspect bars have been
checked. This is non-destructive and the bar would not be deformed by
the flex if the bending force was low enough.

I don't know the dimensions of a LGD bar but I could provide detailed calcs if you think the idea has merit.

Some quick data:

Tungsten- Youngs Modulus 411 GPa
Gold -Young's Modulus 78 GPa
GPa is Newtons per meter squared, times ten to the power 9.

Regards
Brad Hale
BEng(Hons) CEng MIPlantE MSOE

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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par marie Lun 2 Nov 2009 - 23:55

avis d'expert sur la détection de faux lingots au tungstène : les ultrasons

www.lemetropolecafe.com


Bill and the Midas group,
As a metallurgist with a level 2 ultrasonic certification I am qualified to say this - there is a very simple and very reliable way to detect tungsten overlaid with gold. That method is an ultrasonic test. Yes gold and tungsten have almost identical denisities so checking it by water displacement and specific gravity will not work.

BUT gold and tungsten have very very different acoustic impedances:
http://www.signal-processing.com/tech/us_data_solid.htm

Gold has an acoustic impedance of 63.8 [MRayls=(kg/(sxm2)x106]

Tungsten has an acoustic impedance of 101.0 [MRayls=(kg/(sxm2)x106]

As you can see a very significant difference tungsten is like 60% GREATER acoustic impedance. In layman's terms acoustic impedance is the materials resistance or ability of sound to travel thru it. So if you were to ultrasonically test pure gold vs tungsten overlaid with gold the ultrasonic signal response would be VERY different and very noticeable. UT test can also detect air gaps.

So if the Chinese depository or whoever wants to NON DESTRUCTIVLEY test for this all they would have to do is get an utrasonic tester and have somone who preferably is a certified ultrasonic inspector check for it. An expenive unit and probes needed for the job would cost less than 15K. If you know anyone within those depositories that want to check their gold I would suggest they use this method as a quick screeen maybe you can tell your stalker source this.


All those other methods that were described like X-ray diffraction, atomic aporption, mass spectometer only detect near the surface so it would not work on a big hunk of metal.
Charley



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Messagela suite Rob kirby or tungstène
par nofear Ven 13 Nov 2009 - 5:09

avec les commentaires de Harvey.

explosif et saignant , le GLD tiendra encore combien de temps dans cette fuck dancing ?

Citation :
Nov 12.09 commentary..extremely important...more information on the tungsten "gold bars"


Good evening to you all:

First of all before going into todays gold and silver trading, Rob Kirby has sent to us more findings on the tungsten "gold" bar
caper.

Kirby's newest commentary is simply earth-shattering.

Here is a summary of his findings. The complete article follows my comments.

1. As I reported to you a few weeks ago, there were reports of 400 0z bars of gold found in the Bank of England filled with tungsten.

It was reported to you that tungsten has the same specific gravity of gold, so it is easy to manufacture a fake brick. Only an electrical test

could determine which bar is real.


2. Kirby also identified that the GLD list in London had the bar list go from 1381 pages to under 200 and then back to 800 pages, even though

the gold inventory of GLD was increasing from 1080 tonnes to gold to its present value of 1118 tonnes.

3. During the week of Oct 1.09, there were irregular physical gold settlements and the Bank of England had to intervene on behalf of JPMorgan and

Deutsche Bank as these two banks did not have the physical gold backing its delivery.

4. China is known as the knock off capital of the world. Everyone thought that they were the manufacturers of these tungsten bricks. The Chinese

were the ultimate buyers of these tungsten bricks and they decided that they needed to get to the bottom of this fiasco. In their interrogation process they found the perpetrators

and put them behind bars and in the process discovered that it was the usa who orchestrated the manufacture of these fake bars

5. The usa manufacturered anywhere btw. 1.3 to 1.5 million bars of 400 0z weight or roughly 16,000 metric tonnes.

The usa holds 8,000 meteric tonnes of gold and the world roughly 30,000 metric tonnes.


6. Approximately 640,000 of these tungsten bricks of 400 oz weight were shipped to Fort Knox. The weight in oz is 256 million oz which is roughly the 8,000 tonnes of gold

that Fort Knox supposedly holds.

7. The remaining 8,000 metric tonnes were shipped to international centres and sold on the international market. Many of thse bars ended up at the GLD.

8. Kirby has documents which show that his folks have copies of original shipping documents with dates and EXACT WEIGHTS OF THE TUNGSTEN BARS

SHI{PPED TO FORT KNOX.


9. This may help explain why Rothschild's left in 2004 as they probably knew that many of the bricks at the B of E were fake.

10. It may help explain why no news came out on the raid at the Nymex in Feb 2004 where the District Attorney was investigating Stuart Smith, VP of

operations at the Nymex. We has issued a search warrant and he abruptly left and to this day has not been heard from.


The above will help explain why I cannot balance supply and demand of gold. We know that demand is somewhere around 4500 tonnes of gold and supply around 2400 tonnes and

thus the deficit was funded with supplies from central banks. The above ground gold supplied by the central banks came through the leasing process.



The leasing of gold started in 1988 and with a deficit of 2000 tonnes per annum, the world should have run out of gold a few years ago. It did not.

Now we know why!!!!!!



Everything now makes sense and the balance of "gold" supplied into the market was in reality tungsten bricks.



I will be working with Don Jack with a formal complaint on this.


l'article de Kirby in extenso


http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/kirby/2009/1112.html


source du commentaire

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/2009/11/nov-1209-commentaryextremely.html

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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par du-puel Ven 13 Nov 2009 - 10:15

Ca pue de plus en plus cette histoire ; je suis bien content avec mes pièces et lingots : ils vaudront d'autant plus.

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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par marie Ven 13 Nov 2009 - 14:15

purée !!

Fort Knox, mérite bien son x à la fin ... puisqu'il multipilie les barres d'or ..

Fort Tungstène !!




ps: Kirby oublie Aig..

il n'y a pas que Rothschild qui a quitté le statut de market maker au lbma en 2004 , Aig idem ! et à peu près à la même date ! ( avril pour Rothschild et juin pour Aig )
sans compter bien entendu, la création de GLD, toujours en 2004 .. ( décembre )

LONDON, June 1 (2004) (Reuters) - AIG International Limited, part of American International Group Inc, will no longer be a London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) market maker in gold and silver, the LBMA said on Tuesday.

LBMA Chief Executive Stewart Murray told Reuters AIG had been reclassified as a member and so would still trade, with effect from close of business on Friday May 28.

AIG was a first-tier market maker and dealer in over-the-counter spot, forward, option and swap markets in precious metals. Murray said the company requested to be reclassified….. –END-



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MessageLBMA
par marie Ven 13 Nov 2009 - 18:58

pour ceux qui lisent mal l'anglais : résumé rapide des principaux éléments


le 18 octobre dernier, à la suite d'un audit dans un coffre de honk hong, on découvre une bonne quantité ( 60 T) de barres d'or, standart monétaire ( LBMA) fourées au tungstène
ces barres appartaenant aux chinois, ont pour provenance directe, les stocks du LBMA
cet audit aurait été fait à la Demande des chinois, qui venaient de se faire livrer les barres en question ..
les barres au tungsténe ne sont pas détectables au poids.. mais uniquement par une technique sophistiquée d'ultrason

voici ce que les chinois, disent avoir découvert :

1999: entre 1.3 et 1.5 millions de barre ( moules ) de tungstène de 400 oz ( 16.000 tonnes métriques ) ont été raffinées aux usa par un raffineur renommé.

640.000 de ces moules tungsténe ont reçu leur plaquage or , et ont été expédiées à fort knox
Kirby connait les personnes qui ont documents du transfert à FK. poids et dates des barres fourrées,

les barres moules restantes ont également été plaquées or et vendu sur le marché international

jusqu'en2004, tout va bien.. personne ne se doute de ren ..

mais en février de cette année là , le vice président du nymex, Stuart Mill..est inquiété par une enquête d'un avocat de Manhattan..
s'il y a bien un endroit où l'on peut disposer des statistiques officielles de l'origine ( poids, raffineur, dates etc) des barres, c'est bien au nymex ..
le pauvre S Mill, disparait littéralement ds la nature et plus personne n'a jamais entendu parler de lui ..


puis les choses semblent se précipiter ..
en avril de la même année , Rothshield claque la porte du LBMA , suivi en juin par AIG

enfin en déc de la même année, est crée l'etf GLD, qui comme vous le savez "satisfait" aux demandes de livraison physique sur le comex ..

l'étude du brillant Veneroso, que j'ai maintes fois évoquée ici .. prévoyait que compte tenu du déficit annuel de 1500-2000 T / an, le cartel devait se trouver à court il ya déjà 2 ou 3 ans ..

http://www.hardinvestor.net/les-hard-investors-f7/rappel-offre-demande-gold-le-veritable-chiffrage-t5241.htm

ce qui n'a pas été le cas ..
nous avons une idée du pourquoi de ce" salutaire " sursis, à présent ..



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MessageEE
par marie Ven 13 Nov 2009 - 22:24

-1 un lecteur me rappelle le curieux épisode des lingots fissurés de la banque d'angletterre ( merci à lui )

et en effet ... c'est troublant ..

j'ai retrouvé le topo dans nos archives ... ça se savoure ..



http://www.hardinvestor.net/les-hard-investors-f7/nouvelle-farce-a-la-bque-d-angleterre-t7188.htm?highlight=lingots+f%e9l%e9s+banque+d+angleterre

-2 et si ma mémoire est bonne, la BC d'Ethiopie avait elle aussi, découvert des lingots truqués

mais ici, il s'agissait d'une falsification grossière ( acier ), facilement détectable à la pesée .

http://www.hardinvestor.net/les-hard-investors-f7/big-pb-sur-les-reserves-de-gold-de-la-bc-ethiopie-t8224.htm?highlight=%e9thiopie


-3 pour le fun, ya une cie chinoise, Chinatungsten , qui connait apparemment très bien ce buziness.. et qui fait même de la publicité, pour des pièces fourées artistiquement au tungstène ..

ça c'est marrant ... tout de même ... c'est même pas de l'arnaque, puisqu'on vous dit d'emblée que la pièce est fourée ... c'est quoi, le but, là??




http://www.dollardaze.org/blog/?post_id=00742



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Messagec'est quoi, le but, là??
par phv Sam 14 Nov 2009 - 11:40

Marie,

Je pense que le but est de vendre (à priori à des escrocs...) de faux produits en Or... qui pourraient être revendus par les dits-escrocs à des gens qui se feraient avoir dans les grandes tailles...

Cela devrait permettre à Chinatungsten de vendre sa camelotte avec des marges confortables...

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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par g.sandro Sam 14 Nov 2009 - 12:31

certes, et le rapport rentabilité / risque semble favorable aux escrocs qui peuvent à leur tour plaider la bonne foi, bah M'ssieur l'juge, j'étais certain qu'il était vrai, sinon, vous pensez bien que je ne l'aurais pas acheté, je ne suis pas maso....d'ailleurs je l'ai payé cher, j'ai paumé la factoche, mais j'vous jure...

Ce qui est très gênant, c'est surtout que ça relativise faussement la rareté relative du physical Gold et que ça aide grave cabalas à peser sur le cours...de là à soutenir qu'il serait un gros client des noichs, yakunpas que, bien entendu, personne ne franchira ...



Silver is king, Go Gold !
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Messageje reposte On Doing God’s Work de Kirby, plus lisible qu'avant j'espère
par g.sandro Sam 14 Nov 2009 - 13:22

On Doing God’s Work

Rob Kirby

“Gold Finger - A New Take On Operation Grand Slam With A
Tungsten Twist”
I’ve already reported on irregular physical gold settlements which occurred
in London, England back in the first week of October, 2009. Specifically, these
settlements involved the intermediation of at least one Central Bank [The Bank
of England] to resolve allocated settlements on behalf of J.P. Morgan and
Deutsche Bank – who DID NOT have the gold bullion that they had sold short and
were contracted to deliver. At the same time I reported on two other unusual
occurrences:

  1. irregularities in the publication of the gold ETF - GLD’s bar list from
    Sept. 25 – Oct.14 where the length of the bar list went from 1,381 pages to
    under 200 pages and then back up to 800 or so pages.

  2. reports of 400 oz. “good delivery” bricks of gold found gutted and filled
    with tungsten within the confines of LBMA approved vaults in Hong Kong.



Why Tungsten?
If anyone were contemplating creating “fake” gold bars, tungsten [at roughly
$10 per pound] would be the metal of choice since it has the exact same density
as gold making a fake bar salted with tungsten indistinguishable from a solid
gold bar by simply weighing it.
Unfortunately, there are now more sordid details to report.
When the news of tungsten “salted” gold bars in Hong Kong first surfaced,
many people
who I am acquainted with automatically assumed that these bars were
manufactured in
China – because China is generally viewed as “the knock-off capital of the
world”.
Here’s what I now understand really happened:
The amount of “salted tungsten” gold bars in question was allegedly between
5,600 and 5,700 – 400 oz – good delivery bars [roughly 60 metric tonnes].
This was apparently all highly orchestrated by an extremely well financed
criminal operation.
Within mere hours of this scam being identified – Chinese officials had many
of the perpetrators in custody.
And here’s what the Chinese allegedly uncovered:
Roughly 15 years ago – during the Clinton Administration [think Robert Rubin,
Sir Alan Greenspan and Lawrence Summers] – between 1.3 and 1.5 million 400 oz
tungsten blanks were allegedly manufactured by a very high-end, sophisticated
refiner in the USA [more than 16 Thousand metric tonnes]. Subsequently, 640,000
of these tungsten blanks received their gold plating and WERE shipped to Ft.
Knox and remain there to this day. I know folks who have copies of the original
shipping docs with dates and exact weights of “tungsten” bars shipped to Ft.
Knox.


The balance of this 1.3 million – 1.5 million 400 oz tungsten cache was also
plated and then allegedly “sold” into the international market.
Apparently, the global market is literally “stuffed full of 400 oz salted
bars”.
Makes one wonder if the Indians were smart enough to assay their 200 tonne
haul from the IMF?

A Slow Motion Train Wreck, Years in the Making
An obscure news item originally published in the N.Y. Post [written by
Jennifer Anderson] in late Jan. 04 has always ‘stuck in my craw’:
<blockquote>
DA investigating NYMEX executive - Manhattan, New York, district attorney's
office, Stuart Smith - Melting Pot - Brief Article – Feb. 2, 2004
A top executive at the New York Mercantile Exchange is being investigated by
the Manhattan district attorney. Sources close to the exchange said that Stuart
Smith, senior vice president of operations at the exchange, was served with a
search warrant by the district attorney's office last week. Details of the
investigation have not been disclosed, but a NYMEX spokeswoman said it was
unrelated to any of the exchange's markets. She declined to comment further
other than to say that charges had not been brought. A spokeswoman for the
Manhattan district attorney's office also declined comment.
</blockquote>
The offices of the Senior Vice President of Operations - NYMEX – is exactly
where you would go to find the records [serial number and smelter of origin] for
EVERY GOLD BAR ever PHYSICALLY settled on the exchange. They are required to
keep these records. These precise records would show the lineage of all the
physical gold settled on the exchange and hence "prove" that the amount of gold
in question could not have possibly come from the U.S. mining operations –
because the amounts in question coming from U.S. smelters would undoubtedly be
vastly bigger than domestic mine production.
We never have found out what happened to poor ole Stuart Smith – after his
offices were "raided" – he took administrative leave from the NYMEX and he has
never been heard from since. Amazingly [or perhaps not], there never was any
follow up on in the media on the original story as well as ZERO developments
ever stemming from D.A. Morgenthau’s office who executed the search warrant.
Are we to believe that NYMEX offices were raided, the Sr. V.P. of operations
then takes leave - all for nothing?
These revelations should provide a “new filter” through which Rothschild
exiting the gold market back in 2004 begins to make a little more sense:
<blockquote>
“LONDON, April 14, 2004 (Reuters) - NM Rothschild & Sons Ltd., the
London-based unit of investment bank Rothschild [ROT.UL], will withdraw from
trading commodities, including gold, in London as it reviews its operations, it
said on Wednesday.”
</blockquote>
Interestingly, GATA’s Bill Murphy speculated about this back in 2004;
<blockquote>
“Why is Rothschild leaving the gold business at this time my colleagues and I
conjectured today? Just a guess on my part, but suspect:”
*SOMETHING IS AMISS. THEY KNOW A BIG GOLD SCANDAL IS COMING AND THEY WANT NO
PART OF IT. …”
“ROTHSCHILD WANTS OUT BEFORE THE PROVERBIAL "S" HITS THE FAN.” BILL MURPHY,
LEMETROPOLE, 4-18-2004
</blockquote>
Coincidentally [or perhaps, not?], GLD Began Trading 11/12/2004
In light of what has occurred – regarding the Gold ETF, GLD – after reviewing
their prospectus yet again, it becomes pretty clear that GLD was established to
purposefully deflect investment dollars away from legitimate gold pursuits and
to create a stealth, cesspool / catch-all, slush-fund and a likely destination
for many of these “salted tungsten bars” where they would never see the light of
day – hidden behind the following legalese “shield” from the law:
<blockquote>
Excerpt from the GLD prospectus on page 11:
http://www.spdrgoldshares.com/media/GLD/file/SPDRGoldTrustProspectus.pdf
Gold bars allocated to the Trust in connection with the creation of a
Basket may not meet the London
Good Delivery Standards and, if a Basket
is issued against such gold, the Trust may suffer a loss.

Trustee nor the Custodian independently confirms the fineness of the gold bars
allocated to the Trust in connection with the creation of a Basket. The gold
bars allocated to the Trust by the Custodian may be different from the reported
fineness or weight required by the LBMA’s standards for gold bars delivered in
settlement of a gold trade, or the London Good Delivery Standards, the standards
required by the Trust. If the Trustee nevertheless issues a Basket against such
gold, and if the Custodian fails to satisfy its obligation to credit the Trust
the amount of any deficiency, the Trust may suffer a loss.
Neither the </blockquote>

The Fed Has Already Been Caught Lying
Liberty Coin’s Patrick
Heller
recently wrote,
<blockquote>
Earlier this year, the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA), filed a
second Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the Federal Reserve System
for documents from 1990 to date having to do with gold swaps, gold swapped, or
proposed gold swaps. On Aug. 5, The Federal Reserve responded to this FOIA
request by adding two more documents to those disclosed to GATA in April 2008
from the earlier FOIA request. These documents totaled 173 pages, many parts of
which were redacted (covered up to omit sections of text). The Fed's response
also noted that there were 137 pages of documents not disclosed that were
alleged to be exempt from disclosure. GATA appealed this determination on Aug.
20. The appeal asked for more information to substantiate the legitimacy of the
claimed exemptions from disclosure and an explanation on why some documents,
such as one posted on the Federal Reserve Web site that discusses gold swaps,
were not included in the Aug. 5 document release. In a Sept. 17, 2009, letter on
Federal Reserve System letterhead, Federal Reserve governor Kevin M. Warsh
completely denied GATA's appeal. The entire text of this letter can be examined
at http://www.gata.org/files/GATAFedResponse-09-17-2009.pdf.
The first paragraph on the third page is the most revealing. Warsh wrote, "In
connection with your appeal, I have confirmed that the information withheld
under exemption 4 consists of confidential commercial or financial information
relating to the operations of the Federal Reserve Banks that was obtained within
the meaning of exemption 4. This includes information relating to swap
arrangements with foreign banks on behalf of the Federal Reserve System and is
not the type of information that is customarily disclosed to the public. This
information was properly withheld from you." This paragraph will likely be one
of the most important news stories of the year. Though not stated in plain
English, this paragraph is an admission that the Fed has in the past and may now
be engaged in trading gold swaps. Warsh's letter contradicts previous Fed
statements to GATA denying that it ever engaged in gold swaps during the time
period between Jan. 1, 1990 and the present.
[Perhaps most importantly], this was GATA's second FOIA request to the
Federal Reserve on the issue of gold swaps. The 173 pages of documents
received for the 2009 FOIA request all pre-dated the 2007 FOIA request, which
means they should have been released in the response to the earlier FOIA
request. This establishes a likelihood that the Federal Reserve has failed to
adequately search or disclose relevant documents. Further, the Fed response
admitted that it had copies of relevant records that originally appeared on the
Treasury Department Web site, but failed to include them in its
response.
</blockquote>
Now that Federal Reserve governor Warsh has admitted that the Fed has lied in
the past about the Fed’s involvement with gold. It should now be very clear to
everyone why the Fed is lying and the true nature of what they are hiding /
withholding.

On Doing God’s Work
An important footnote to consider is the inter-twined-ness of the U.S.
Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury [can anyone really tell them apart?] as
well as this duopoly’s two principal agents – J.P. Morgan-Chase and Goldman
Sachs. When one truly grasps the nature of these highly conflicted relationships
it gives a fuller meaning to words recently uttered by Goldman head, Lloyd
Blankfein, who claimed,

“I’m doing god’s work”
Does this really mean that Mr. Blankfein believes that the Federal Reserve is
god? You can judge for yourself. While the Fed prints money like no one else
could - except god almighty himself [or Gideon Gono,
perhaps?] – I really doubt that was the intent back in 1864, when the U.S.
adopted “In God We
Trust
” as their official motto.


And that’s my two cents worth for today.
Got [real] physical gold yet?
More for subscribers. Subscribe here.



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Message640K bars is the number of tungsten bars // 640,000 gold bars in Ft. Knox
par g.sandro Sam 14 Nov 2009 - 15:50


Source Midas du 12/11/09
Eric -
Note that 640,000 tungsten bars were shipped to Ft. Knox.


A few days ago, I watched on TV the only film ever released of a tour inside Ft. Knox vaults, and a comprehensive explanation of the super-security involved.

At the date of filming, the gold price was $42.xx per oz. I think it was 1966, but not sure.

What I AM sure about, is the mention that there are
640,000 gold bars there, each weighing on a household
scale about 40 pounds (plain old avoirdupois weight like on store bought scales).


That is SCARY, when the 640,000 bars is exactly the number of tungsten bars referred to in the GATA letter attached.

Is our Ft. Knox gold the old real gold, or was it switched to tungsten? Our paper money is crap, and maybe our gold is too!


I have liquidated most of my GLD because they may be stuck with tungsten too.

The rest of my GLD I will dump probably tomorrow. I'm changing gears to mining stox, and believe silver may be the bigger mover soon. We're not very likely to see counterfeit silver, so it's probably a much safer place to be.

Also it will become the "affordable" buy when the gold buyer's panic gets going.



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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par marie Dim 15 Nov 2009 - 0:25

phv a écrit:
Marie,

Je pense que le but est de vendre (à priori à des escrocs...) de faux produits en Or... qui pourraient être revendus par les dits-escrocs à des gens qui se feraient avoir dans les grandes tailles...

Cela devrait permettre à Chinatungsten de vendre sa camelotte avec des marges confortables...

bien sur, Patrick...c'est aussi mon avis .. c'est tellement évident que je pensais que mon interrogation, faussement naive, serait comprise ..



je plussoie aussi la rép de Sandro .

Citation :
certes, et le rapport rentabilité / risque semble favorable aux escrocs qui peuvent à leur tour plaider la bonne foi, bah M'ssieur l'juge, j'étais certain qu'il était vrai, sinon, vous pensez bien que je ne l'aurais pas acheté, je ne suis pas maso....d'ailleurs je l'ai payé cher, j'ai paumé la factoche, mais j'vous jure...

Ce qui est très gênant, c'est surtout que ça relativise faussement la rareté relative du physical Gold et que ça aide grave cabalas à peser sur le cours...de là à soutenir qu'il serait un gros client des noichs, yakunpas que, bien entendu, personne ne franchira ...



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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par nofear Mer 18 Nov 2009 - 23:39

Jim CB Willie fait encore très fort.

article fondamental à conserver sous vos yeux.

Citation :

In
1964 the USGovt introduced the zinc dimes clad with silver. They at
least admitted the debauchery publicly. Now pre-1964 silver coins are
all considered different, and valued differently too, higher. Rome committed the same coinage fraud 1900 years ago. Their Empire went bust as the city burned almost concurrently


Ayn Rand wrote "If
you want to know when a society is set to vanish, watch the money.
Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money,
for money is men’s protection and the base of moral existence.
Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owner a counterfeit pile of
papers
NEW TUNGSTEN MINE DISCOVERY
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1258596000.php


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MessageIl est pas frais, mon beau tungsténe ?
par g.sandro Jeu 19 Nov 2009 - 22:47

Mercredi 18 novembre 2009

Source;

http://lachute.over-blog.com/article-il-est-pas-frais-mon-beau-tungstene--39595969.html




Il est pas frais, mon beau tungsténe ?









Je sens que l'histoire va tourner en queue de poisson, avec
bagarre au village et menhir qui volent dans l'air.
16 000 tonnes d'or fourré au tungstène, ou plutôt, du tungstène un peu d'or plaqué , voilà ce qui a été fait sous
Clinton.
Pour garder la valeur du dollar, il fallait neutraliser l'or. Le moyen,
c'était d'en vendre, même quand on n'en a plus. (variante de la
stratégie qui consiste à continuer de tirer pour faire croire qu'on a
encore des munitions).
Que l'histoire du libéralisme économique depuis 30 ans, soit une gigantesque escroquerie, j'en étais sûr.
John Williams sur son site, "Shadow government statistics" nous l'affirmait.

Maintenant, on sait que la fraude était gigantesque, basique même : de fausses barres de 12 kg.
Le chômage, officiellement à 10.2 % est réellement à 17.5 % et même 22 % pour John William.
L'inflation est sous évaluée de 8 %.
Total, la "croissance" très sainte du système appartient au passé aux USA depuis la fin des années 1980.
Dans le meilleur des cas, la croissance réelle tombait en dessous de la
croissance démographique, dès les années 1990, et depuis 2000, c'est la récession.
La récession s'aggrave, passant au stade de dépression.
Le bilan de la FED, complétement pourri, explose. Il passe de 900 milliards à plus de 1800.
La production industrielle est en chute libre.

Quand à la fable du rebond, elle est aussi très simple à expliquer :
vous faites rentrer un produit -chinois- à 5 $ et vous le valorisez à
10 $ le prix de fabrication US.
Quand à la réaction populaire, elle est typiquement américaine : c'est la formation de milices.
Les années Clinton avaient déjà connu le problème, jusqu'à ce que le système impérial, arrivé à maturité (et le déficit extérieur à
500 milliards de $), puisse donner du pain et des jeux y compris aux plus pauvres.
Alors, les choses s'étaient tassées et l'amérique s'en était tiré avec
un attentat à Oklahoma city et l'enkystement des milices restantes.

La présidence Bush avait inventé la guerre et la bulle immobilière
pour faire perdurer le système. Le système risque de passer au stade de
"couper les cabêches" connu aussi sous le nom de "fricassée de
connards".

En effet, les deux risques sont
qu'à l'extérieur, les roulés risquent de fort mal le prendre, surtout
que dans le cas d'espèce, ils sont riches. Si on peut voler les pauvres
sans crainte, les riches en général ont mauvais caractère.
A l'intérieur, la
vision de la "superpuissance" qu'en aura la population, c'est le
passage du premier de la classe, à celui du cancre du fond, en haillons
de surcroit, qui plus est, marchant à pied, faute d'essence pour la
voiture.

Quand au fait de
croire que les 16 000 tonnes sont encore à fort Knox, c'est douteux. On
ne fait pas de la fausse monnaie pour stocker. Elle doit circuler avant
la bonne. "la mauvaise monnaie chasse la bonne". Comment les acheteurs
ne s'en sont ils pas aperçus avant ? Facile. Quand ils s'apercevaient
de la supercherie, ils revendaient à d'autres investisseurs et
étouffaient l'affaire. Surtout s'ils vendaient avec gains.

Le problème désormais, c'est que l'or, ça commence à devenir très sérieux, et que les barres
fourrées au tungstène, il doit commencer à y en avoir beaucoup aujourd'hui.

Quand au dollar, il est "As good as Tungsten"... Avantage : alors que
pour 35 $ en 1970 vous aviez une once (d'or), aujourd'hui, avec 20 $,
vous avez un kilo (de tungstène).
Quand aux USA, un nouveau nom leur est nécessaire : Used Slumbags of America...

Quand
aux britanniques, pour avoir la paix en Afghanistan, ils proposent
d'acheter les Talibans. La seule limite à ce principe de savoir si les
talibans vont avoir confiance dans la monnaie qu'on leur donne (ce sont
des gens avisés, rusés et méfiants), et si ça se trouve, ils fabriquent
déjà leurs propres dollars, plus vrais que les vrais.

Quand
aux chinois qui désindustrialise le reste du monde avec leur monnaie
sous contrôle des changes, ils pourraient s'apercevoir qu'ils ont été
doublement roulés : par les $ et par les lingots...
Comme lot de consolation, leurs nouveaux missiles ont une portée de 1500 km et peuvent neutraliser les porte-avions américains...

Tel Astérix, nous sommes entrés dans la maison des fous...



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MessageGold Market Breakdown
par nofear Lun 23 Nov 2009 - 7:53

ça devient chaud là , D'après Jim CB Willie il n'y a que du faux à fort knox. Tout est faux à l'image des anglo-UE-USA d'ailleurs.

Citation :
November 19, 2009
Jim Willie, The Golden Jackass

The rise in gold pre-sages a currency collapse, led by the USDollar.
Gold vaults at commodity exchanges in New York and especially London
are being drained by delivery demands. Gold demand is skyrocketing, as
distrust for the USDollar is broadening and revolt against the US$ is
deepening. The quintessential finance war is between the United States
and China, with the battlefield being the US$ and Gold. The race over
the $1000 price level came in the face of mammoth shorting by the same
Usual Suspects on Wall Street, which do so with paper, but without the
required collateral. The gold market is poised for a surprise upward
move from a basic broken condition, as the Powerz are losing control.
It would be a joy to watch except for the extreme hardship due to come
to the betrayed American people.

$$$ THE BIGGEST GOLD CRIME STORY OF THE CENTURY MIGHT BE SOON COMING TO
FULL LIGHT. EVIDENCE IS BEING ACCUMULATING THAT THE CLINTON ADMIN WITH
RUBIN AT USDEPT TREASURY REPLACED PERHAPS THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF THE
FORT KNOX GOLD WITH TUNGSTEN BARS PLATED BY GOLD. THE SALTED GOLD BARS
ARE FASTING BECOMING A GLOBAL CRIME ISSUE. HONG KONG DISCOVERED THEM,
AND NOW ASSAYERS ARE TRYING TO AUTHENTICATE MOST OF THE GLOBAL GOLD
HELD IN BANKS. ENTIRE NATIONS ARE AT RISK. BEFORE LONG THE USGOVT COULD
BE DECLARED A ROGUE NATION INTERNATIONALLY. $$$

Evidence is being gathered by perhaps a dozen key gold traders with
diverse connections to the gold industry. They tie the delivery
systems, the authentication processes, the assayers, record keeping,
big financial firms, and trading platforms. Evidence mounts that as
many as 1.5 million 400-oz gold bars were replaced at Fort Knox during
the Clinton Admin with tungsten bars covered with a thin gold plate.
This was a complex metallurgical feat, from what is told. The first
'salted bars' were discovered in Hong Kong a month ago, reported by the
Hat Trick Letter. Since that time, tens of thousands of bars have been
examined, usually using four test holes drilled for direct sampling.
Other non-invasive methods are being used as well, such as
electro-magnetic tests to detect the actual lattice structure of the
metal to distinguish gold from other substitutes. Word came this week
that almost every available assayer in the world is currently tied up,
charged with proving the authenticity of gold bars worldwide, right
now! Rob Kirby suspects that the Street Tracks GLD exchange traded fund
might be loaded with such salted bars. It is a perfect destination for
them, since the Wall Street syndicate prevents any audit. The total
value of gold removed within the plot was worth over $500 billion. So
where are the real gold bars stored? My guess is the same location
where the Madoff money is secretly held.

My view is the story is not only credible, but it is the climax to the
US financial collapse. In time the United States will be isolated,
declared a Rogue Nation, unable to fund its debt except with
monetization, whose leaders and former leaders face international
prosecution. The resulting inflation will undermine the USDollar to the
point that it will not be accepted. A USTreasury default will be
forced, all in time. To be sure, some demand for gold might be frozen
into inaction obviously, as customers would fear owning fake gold bars.
However, the significantly greater effect is that sellers of gold will
scramble to purchase real gold bars, so as to avoid fraud charges,
criminal prosecution, and jail time. They will be motivated to repair
the fraudulent transaction with full expedience. The replacement effect
will cause an extraordinarily huge demand. Only at that time, will the
risk of exposing the stolen gold come, as the thieves will want to cash
out on their crime, at least partially. The removal and illegal swap of
gold has precedent. In the 1960 decade, around 1968, President Lyndon
Johnson ordered the removal of 7000 of the 8000 tons of gold from Fort
Knox, and had it sent to England. The motive was to support the gold
price at the time. Just a few years later, the US under President Nixon
abandoned the US$ Gold Standard, as dictated by the Bretton Woods
Accord. The gold was replaced during the Johnson Admin in Fort Knox by
lead bars plated by gold. A contact of mine was in the USMilitary
Police at the time. He reported long caravans exiting Fort Knox for
weeks at a time, but the details of shipments were not known to the
guards, only their duties.

For some excellent forensic financial analysis on the fake gold
project, called Operation Grand Slam, see Rob Kirby's article. It is
entitled "On Doing God A New Take On Operation Grand Slam With A
Tungsten Twist HERE), dated 12 November 2009. $$$ GOLD MARKET BREAKDOWN
IS WITHIN VIEW. LONDON GOLD IS BEING DRAINED BY THE CHINESE. A
DISMANTLE OF THE CRIMINAL APPARATUS IS THEIR GOAL. UPON FULL BREAKDOWN,
THE GOLD PRICE WILL BE RELEASED FROM PAPER TENTACLES AND RISE SHARPLY.
$$$

Pressures mounted in early October at the London metals exchange as
gold contract holders demanded delivery of gold. My source tells me
that the parties demanding gold were almost exclusively Chinese. It is
mostly private billionaires. Their stated motive was to diversify out
of US$-based assets. Their rumored motive was to ruin the exchange,
expose the chronic fraud linked to government ministries, and force the
USDollar to fight in the open to demonstrate value or lack of value.
The source said the next round of gold contract delivery pressure comes
in late November, then again in March 2010, and finally in June 2010.
He said the gold is gradually being drained in London, and that all
demands for gold delivery were met in October, using legal force, the
courts, and powerful attorneys. Not a single gold contract was settled
for cash with a 25% dividend bribe. He concluded that the financial
system will be broken at the gold-USDollar cross beam. He openly stated
that he could not conceive of the system holding together past June of
next year, and a severe test is likely in March 2010. He said with sly
tone, "There is a saying: Watch out or you become shit before your own
shovel. That is what is happening to the BOYZ right now. The people in
the driver seat of the bulldozer have clear instructions what to do in
the gold market." When the breakdown comes, it will be next to
impossible to trade in USDollars, to settle commerce in USDollars, to
finance the USTreasurys, to supply the USEconomy with credit, and to
maintain the US banking system. The banks in the United States will
then shut down in all likelihood.

My view is that a battle royal is being played out with gross global
pressures, between the old broken insolvent corrupted powers of the
West versus the new wealthy ambitious powers of the East, led by China.
The future chapters will possibly involve the Intl Court in The Hague
for prosecutions against the Wall Street firms and former USTreasury
officials. It will possibly involve a wave of murders from the middle
levels, working up, since the guilty parties operate with impunity and
government protection. It will surely involve relentless attacks on
COMEX and London CME for gold deliveries, where collateral requirements
are not enfoced. The practice is known as naked shorting, illegal. It
will probably involve the isolation of the United States, with full
recognition of a crime syndicate lodged within its government
ministries and capital markets. These are truly incredible times.

http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/09_Money/091119.gold.market.breakdown.html

.

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MessageRe: Kirby / l'or en backwardation / fausse barres de livraison en tungstène
par marie Mar 6 Avr 2010 - 16:08

Kirby revient === > toute la genèse de cette affaire + la suite de l'histoire

un topo très fouillé, à lire abolument

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/genesis-gold-tungsten-rest-story



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